Recent Changes for "Acceptable Use Policy" - Rochester Wiki

Acceptable Use Policy

MrPhil — 2007-12-12T02:10:05Z

Renamed to "Wiki Community/Acceptable Use Policy"

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- DRAFT - This is a proposal which is open for discussion. - - = RocWiki Acceptable Use Policy = - - == Introduction == - - RocWiki is a community edited site about Rochester, NY. While we don't allow anonymous editing, we do allow anyone to sign up, and once they have an ID, they can add content to their hearts desire. RocWiki is written and maintained collaboratively by volunteers. - - == Who this policy applies to == - - This Acceptable Use Policy applies to everyone who uses the RocWiki website. Your use of this site by posting on it constitutes your acceptance of RocWiki's Acceptable Use Policy (AUP). - - == Ground Rules == - - === Be civil === - - No personal attacks, explicit or otherwise. Conversely, operate on the assumption that you yourself are not under attack. - - === Let sleeping dogs lie === - - It's tempting to revisit controversial decisions you disagree with, but it's rarely productive to do so, since it almost always results in the same heated, lengthy, and time/energy draining discussions leading to the same conclusion that was reached in the last round. - - Therefore, for issues already raised, discussed, and decided upon, reopen the discussion only if you have significant new information that would reasonably prompt reconsideration of the original decision. - - === Respect personal information === - - You may not collect email addresses, screen names, or other identifiers or personal information without the consent of the person identified (including, without limitation, phishing, Internet scamming, password thieving, spidering, and harvesting). You may not collect or use information without the consent of the owner of the information. - - Do not impersonate any person or entity, forge or manipulate identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any posting. - - == Content Guidelines == - - === Personal Information === - - Do not distribute or post the private or personal user information of another member of the forum without their express permission. This includes names, addresses, phone numbers, and other relevant information. - - === Be honest === - - Do not post material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate. Vandalism constitutes a serious offense. - - === Be relevant === - - Do not publish content, including comments, that are unrelated to the page topic. When posting second-hand information, indicate it as such. When posting about your experience at an establishment with multiple locations, indicate the exact location. - - === Offensive content === - - Do not publish content that engages in personal attacks, or is excessively violent, incites others to violence, threatens to do violence to another person(s), or contains content which is disreputable or contains harassing, or hateful language. - - == Editing == - - Users should never edit or remove comments from other users, with the exception of adding links to improve the interconnectedness of the site. - - == Violations == - - All members of the community may take action to report users and posts that violate this AUP. Violations can be reported to Administrators through email, post, or via the forum's built-in "Report" function (for forum violations). Violations of the AUP may result in removal from the forums. - - In the case of minor violations, we encourage a quiet request on the offending user's page prior to invoking administrative procedures. - - 1st offense: Written warning to offending poster's email address - - 2nd offense: Written warning posted to offending poster's page - - 3rd offense: permanent ban. - - - RocWiki is a community forum, open to all. It cannot accept responsibility for the opinions of its members, or for their errors or omissions, or for any consequences arising from the use of information contained herein. - - Dated: December 9, 2007 - - '''Your input is needed on the ["Acceptable Use Policy/Talk" Talk page].'''	+ #redirect Wiki Community/Acceptable Use Policy

Acceptable Use Policy

MrPhil — 2007-12-11T21:47:27Z

edited in line with community sentiment

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- DRAFT - This is a proposal and hasn't been accepted by the RocWiki community.	+ DRAFT - This is a proposal which is open for discussion.

Acceptable Use Policy

DaveMahon — 2007-12-10T04:46:13Z

moved comments to Talk page

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- - [[Comments]] - ------ - ''2007-12-09 17:56:57'' [[nbsp]] What happens under this policy when somebody posts a comment that is in violation of the preceding policies? These rules don't allow anyone to remove blatant violations. - - Furthermore, what is the difference between content and comments. On the Park Point at RIT page, for example, we had blatant vandalism. It is only appropriate that we collectively be empowered to clean up the wiki without arguing over every little thing! --["DaveMahon"] - ------ - ''2007-12-09 17:59:49'' [[nbsp]] This policy also doesn't clarify the procedure for determining whether speech is offensive or threatening, which is an issue that has come up in the past. One person thought the speech constituted harassment and another thought it was humorous. --["DaveMahon"] - ------ - ''2007-12-09 18:00:55'' [[nbsp]] Also, what happens if we don't have a valid e-mail address? --["DaveMahon"] - ------ - ''2007-12-09 18:26:39'' [[nbsp]] By making this a moderated board would address each one of these issues. --["MrPhil"] - ------ - ''2007-12-09 20:33:10'' [[nbsp]] The software does not and cannot support that functionality. New software is in the works, but it is subject to similar issues. Furthermore, if the wiki is moderated, wouldn't that defeat the whole atmosphere that makes RocWiki thrive? --["DaveMahon"] - ------ - ''2007-12-09 20:42:44'' [[nbsp]] Probably, but choices have to be made. This isn't utopia. At some point, someone, somewhere, somehow will have to exercise editorial control; otherwise all you have is a bulletin board. --["MrPhil"] - ------ - ''2007-12-09 22:16:39'' [[nbsp]] Absolutely. But as you saw, when somebody, somewhere does exercise editorial control, all hell can break loose. :) --["DaveMahon"] - ------ - ''2007-12-09 22:53:06'' [[nbsp]] That should come as a surprise? This wiki portrays itself as "open," and "where anyone with an ID can edit to their hearts content. (Source: http://rocwiki.org/Wiki_Community?action=show&redirect=RocWiki) - - That sentiment cannot co-exist peacefully with a group of self-annointed individuals who take it upon themselves to edit other people's posts. - - It's one or the other, This Wiki is either a bulletin board, in which everyone's opinion has value; or it is a collectivist enterprise, where individual expression must be subsumed to the will of the group. If the latter, then you (referred to in the collective sense), need to develop policies for the group to follow. --["MrPhil"] - ------ - ''2007-12-09 23:00:02'' [[nbsp]] One of the problems is anonymous editing (despite what is said at the - start of this document.) I don't consider having a valid e-mail address - as particularly identifying. A significant number of heated discussions - can be traced to those who hide behind anonymous nicknames. - - Most of us use our real names, is it appropriate to keep allowing fake - names? Bravado through anonymity is a common thing on the internet - and RocWiki is no exception. - - I don't see this being easily solved without making it a stifling - environment. Any thoughts? --["RichardSarkis"] - ------ - ''2007-12-09 23:06:59'' [[nbsp]] Richard, I concur with your sentiments. I have seen some discussion boards (usually moderated), that will not accept posts, unless that person provides true identity. - - But having a anonymous "handle" is like a costume, something you can hide behind. My handle, if clicked, links to my true identity. I view it as a nickname only. - - I do not perceive how providing ones true identity, stifles an ability to express oneself, unless one treats the electronic world as one big costume ball. --["MrPhil"] - ------ - ''2007-12-09 23:16:22'' [[nbsp]] Having spent my entire past summer researching online communities, I think I'm in a good position to provide some solid information. One thing that was consistently found by many different researchers in many different communities is that using real names is always more likely to keep the tone of conversation civil than using pseudonyms. Now, obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, as some people will be brash regardless (as we have seen here), but the general trend is that using real names will prevent flaming from occurring in any online community. --["StevenDibelius"] - ------ - ''2007-12-09 23:19:41'' [[nbsp]] Further, it pains me to see discussion of making this a moderated board. That is not at all what a wiki is intended to be. A wiki is an open, collaborative process, where individuals set aside their egos to form a single meaningful definition of whatever it is they are defining (in this case, Rochester). - - On this wiki, that has not been the case (recently). A big contributer to the problem is the fact that this is not a pure wiki; a pure wiki would never have a commenting system on the actual article pages. By having comments, you break away from the wiki format and make it a wiki/discussion board hybrid, because the article has now become both a section with collaborative work and a section with individual efforts, and that presents the entire problem we are having now. - - The simplest solution is to get rid of all commenting across the wiki. However, I must hesitate about that approach because I know most of our community contributes via comments. Then again, perhaps those are not the type of contributions we want to have. If we get rid of comments, we get rid of a big reason why people come to this website (restaurant reviews). But I know many of us want this site to be more than just yellow pages and restaurant reviews. I think you have to make a big decision about how much participation you want to give up to allow the wiki to continue. - - I would highly suggest looking to [http://www.daviswiki.org/ Davis Wiki] for some guidance on solving this hybrid dilemma, as they seem to have handled it quite nicely. I will also be doing some research into the topic for my senior project @ ["RIT"]. --["StevenDibelius"] - ------ - ''2007-12-09 23:27:25'' [[nbsp]] Steve, - - I don't quite follow your concern. In looking at the DavisWiki site, which apparently rOcwiki is patterned after, I see that comments appear on wiki pages. Take a look at: http://daviswiki.org/Kabul_Afghan_Cuisine - - As an aside, I renamed my user page to reflect my full name. I agree with yours and Richard's sentiments regarding user names. Isn't what was contained on the MrPhil page supposed to transfer over automatically? Or did I miss a step? --["MrPhil"] - ------ - ''2007-12-09 23:32:49'' [[nbsp]] Correct, DavisWiki does have comments on wiki pages. What I meant was that since they have been rather successful (from what I hear), I imagine they dealt with this problem at some point in the past and solved it so they could continue having comments. Anyone with connections to DavisWiki should ask if they ran into this problem or if they have an acceptable use policy. - - On the topic of your user page, I'm going to guess the software wasn't designed to handle user page renaming. My guess would be that you need to create a new user account to have a full name as your user name, but I do not know that for sure; RottenChester or someone else with technical experience on this platform would know better than I. --["StevenDibelius"] - ------ - ''2007-12-10 00:44:25'' [[nbsp]] Steven, even wikis need editors. When someone replaces the picture of the RIT tiger with that of a tiger with a hand drawn outline of a penis, people need to be empowered to fix it without actually having to have a dialogue. - - Along that vein, I can't help but notice that you didn't provide a way to delete comments in violation of the AUP. If I were to viciously slander you in a comment, in addition to being banned, the comment ought to be removed. --["DaveMahon"]	+ '''Your input is needed on the ["Acceptable Use Policy/Talk" Talk page].'''

Acceptable Use Policy

DaveMahon — 2007-12-10T04:44:25Z

Comment added.

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	+ ------ + ''2007-12-10 00:44:25'' [[nbsp]] Steven, even wikis need editors. When someone replaces the picture of the RIT tiger with that of a tiger with a hand drawn outline of a penis, people need to be empowered to fix it without actually having to have a dialogue. + + Along that vein, I can't help but notice that you didn't provide a way to delete comments in violation of the AUP. If I were to viciously slander you in a comment, in addition to being banned, the comment ought to be removed. --["DaveMahon"]

Acceptable Use Policy

StevenDibelius — 2007-12-10T03:32:49Z

Comment added.

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	+ ------ + ''2007-12-09 23:32:49'' [[nbsp]] Correct, DavisWiki does have comments on wiki pages. What I meant was that since they have been rather successful (from what I hear), I imagine they dealt with this problem at some point in the past and solved it so they could continue having comments. Anyone with connections to DavisWiki should ask if they ran into this problem or if they have an acceptable use policy. + + On the topic of your user page, I'm going to guess the software wasn't designed to handle user page renaming. My guess would be that you need to create a new user account to have a full name as your user name, but I do not know that for sure; RottenChester or someone else with technical experience on this platform would know better than I. --["StevenDibelius"]

Acceptable Use Policy

MrPhil — 2007-12-10T03:27:25Z

Comment added.

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	+ ------ + ''2007-12-09 23:27:25'' [[nbsp]] Steve, + + I don't quite follow your concern. In looking at the DavisWiki site, which apparently rOcwiki is patterned after, I see that comments appear on wiki pages. Take a look at: http://daviswiki.org/Kabul_Afghan_Cuisine + + As an aside, I renamed my user page to reflect my full name. I agree with yours and Richard's sentiments regarding user names. Isn't what was contained on the MrPhil page supposed to transfer over automatically? Or did I miss a step? --["MrPhil"]

Acceptable Use Policy

StevenDibelius — 2007-12-10T03:22:50Z

Added to comment.

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- On this wiki, that has not been the case (recently). A big contributer to the problem is the fact that this is not a pure wiki; a pure wiki would never have a commenting system on the actual article pages. By having comments, you break away from the wiki format and make it a wiki/discussion board hybrid, because the article has now become both a section with collaborative work and a section with individual efforts, and that presents the entire problem we are having now. --["StevenDibelius"]	+ On this wiki, that has not been the case (recently). A big contributer to the problem is the fact that this is not a pure wiki; a pure wiki would never have a commenting system on the actual article pages. By having comments, you break away from the wiki format and make it a wiki/discussion board hybrid, because the article has now become both a section with collaborative work and a section with individual efforts, and that presents the entire problem we are having now. + + The simplest solution is to get rid of all commenting across the wiki. However, I must hesitate about that approach because I know most of our community contributes via comments. Then again, perhaps those are not the type of contributions we want to have. If we get rid of comments, we get rid of a big reason why people come to this website (restaurant reviews). But I know many of us want this site to be more than just yellow pages and restaurant reviews. I think you have to make a big decision about how much participation you want to give up to allow the wiki to continue. + + I would highly suggest looking to [http://www.daviswiki.org/ Davis Wiki] for some guidance on solving this hybrid dilemma, as they seem to have handled it quite nicely. I will also be doing some research into the topic for my senior project @ ["RIT"]. --["StevenDibelius"]

Acceptable Use Policy

StevenDibelius — 2007-12-10T03:19:41Z

Comment added.

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	+ ------ + ''2007-12-09 23:19:41'' [[nbsp]] Further, it pains me to see discussion of making this a moderated board. That is not at all what a wiki is intended to be. A wiki is an open, collaborative process, where individuals set aside their egos to form a single meaningful definition of whatever it is they are defining (in this case, Rochester). + + On this wiki, that has not been the case (recently). A big contributer to the problem is the fact that this is not a pure wiki; a pure wiki would never have a commenting system on the actual article pages. By having comments, you break away from the wiki format and make it a wiki/discussion board hybrid, because the article has now become both a section with collaborative work and a section with individual efforts, and that presents the entire problem we are having now. --["StevenDibelius"]

Acceptable Use Policy

StevenDibelius — 2007-12-10T03:16:22Z

Comment added.

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	+ ------ + ''2007-12-09 23:16:22'' [[nbsp]] Having spent my entire past summer researching online communities, I think I'm in a good position to provide some solid information. One thing that was consistently found by many different researchers in many different communities is that using real names is always more likely to keep the tone of conversation civil than using pseudonyms. Now, obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, as some people will be brash regardless (as we have seen here), but the general trend is that using real names will prevent flaming from occurring in any online community. --["StevenDibelius"]

Acceptable Use Policy

MrPhil — 2007-12-10T03:09:21Z

forgot something.

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- But having a anonymous "handle" is like a costume, something you can hide behind.	+ But having a anonymous "handle" is like a costume, something you can hide behind. My handle, if clicked, links to my true identity. I view it as a nickname only.

Acceptable Use Policy

MrPhil — 2007-12-10T03:06:59Z

Comment added.

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	+ ------ + ''2007-12-09 23:06:59'' [[nbsp]] Richard, I concur with your sentiments. I have seen some discussion boards (usually moderated), that will not accept posts, unless that person provides true identity. + + But having a anonymous "handle" is like a costume, something you can hide behind. + + I do not perceive how providing ones true identity, stifles an ability to express oneself, unless one treats the electronic world as one big costume ball. --["MrPhil"]

Acceptable Use Policy

RichardSarkis — 2007-12-10T03:00:02Z

Comment added.

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	+ ------ + ''2007-12-09 23:00:02'' [[nbsp]] One of the problems is anonymous editing (despite what is said at the + start of this document.) I don't consider having a valid e-mail address + as particularly identifying. A significant number of heated discussions + can be traced to those who hide behind anonymous nicknames. + + Most of us use our real names, is it appropriate to keep allowing fake + names? Bravado through anonymity is a common thing on the internet + and RocWiki is no exception. + + I don't see this being easily solved without making it a stifling + environment. Any thoughts? --["RichardSarkis"]

Acceptable Use Policy

MrPhil — 2007-12-10T02:53:06Z

Comment added.

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	+ ------ + ''2007-12-09 22:53:06'' [[nbsp]] That should come as a surprise? This wiki portrays itself as "open," and "where anyone with an ID can edit to their hearts content. (Source: http://rocwiki.org/Wiki_Community?action=show&redirect=RocWiki) + + That sentiment cannot co-exist peacefully with a group of self-annointed individuals who take it upon themselves to edit other people's posts. + + It's one or the other, This Wiki is either a bulletin board, in which everyone's opinion has value; or it is a collectivist enterprise, where individual expression must be subsumed to the will of the group. If the latter, then you (referred to in the collective sense), need to develop policies for the group to follow. --["MrPhil"]

Acceptable Use Policy

DaveMahon — 2007-12-10T02:16:39Z

Comment added.

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	+ ------ + ''2007-12-09 22:16:39'' [[nbsp]] Absolutely. But as you saw, when somebody, somewhere does exercise editorial control, all hell can break loose. :) --["DaveMahon"]

Acceptable Use Policy

MrPhil — 2007-12-10T00:42:44Z

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	+ ------ + ''2007-12-09 20:42:44'' [[nbsp]] Probably, but choices have to be made. This isn't utopia. At some point, someone, somewhere, somehow will have to exercise editorial control; otherwise all you have is a bulletin board. --["MrPhil"]

Acceptable Use Policy

DaveMahon — 2007-12-10T00:33:10Z

Comment added.

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	+ ------ + ''2007-12-09 20:33:10'' [[nbsp]] The software does not and cannot support that functionality. New software is in the works, but it is subject to similar issues. Furthermore, if the wiki is moderated, wouldn't that defeat the whole atmosphere that makes RocWiki thrive? --["DaveMahon"]

Acceptable Use Policy

MrPhil — 2007-12-09T22:39:48Z

revised duplicative explanations, and refined.

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- Do not publish content that is excessively violent, incites violence, threatens violence, or contains content which is disreputable or contains harassing, hate, or otherwise criminal speech.	+ Do not publish content that engages in personal attacks, or is excessively violent, incites others to violence, threatens to do violence to another person(s), or contains content which is disreputable or contains harassing, or hateful language.

Acceptable Use Policy

MrPhil — 2007-12-09T22:26:39Z

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	+ ------ + ''2007-12-09 18:26:39'' [[nbsp]] By making this a moderated board would address each one of these issues. --["MrPhil"]

Acceptable Use Policy

DaveMahon — 2007-12-09T22:16:45Z

improved legibility and added to content guidelines

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- RocWiki Acceptable Use Policy	+ = RocWiki Acceptable Use Policy =
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- Introduction	+ == Introduction ==
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- RocWiki is a community edited site about Rochester,NY. While we don't allow anonymous editing, we do allow anyone to sign up, and once they have an ID, they can add content to their hearts desire. RocWiki is written and maintained collaboratively by volunteers.	+ RocWiki is a community edited site about Rochester, NY. While we don't allow anonymous editing, we do allow anyone to sign up, and once they have an ID, they can add content to their hearts desire. RocWiki is written and maintained collaboratively by volunteers.
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- Who this policy applies to	+ == Who this policy applies to ==
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- This Acceptable Use Policy applies to everyone who uses the RocWiki website. Your use of this site by posting on it constitutes your acceptance of RocWiki's acceptable use policy (AUP).	+ This Acceptable Use Policy applies to everyone who uses the RocWiki website. Your use of this site by posting on it constitutes your acceptance of RocWiki's Acceptable Use Policy (AUP).
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- Ground Rules	+ == Ground Rules ==
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- Be civil	+ === Be civil ===
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- No personal attacks.	+ No personal attacks, explicit or otherwise. Conversely, operate on the assumption that you yourself are not under attack.
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- Let sleeping dogs lie	+ === Let sleeping dogs lie ===
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- Respect personal information	+ === Respect personal information ===
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	+ == Content Guidelines ==
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- Content Guidelines - - Personal Information	+ === Personal Information ===
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- Be honest	+ === Be honest ===
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- Do not post material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.	+ Do not post material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate. Vandalism constitutes a serious offense.
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- Offensive Content	+ === Be relevant ===
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- Do not publish content that is excessively violent, incites violence, threatens violence, or contains content which is disreputable or contains hate speech.	+ Do not publish content, including comments, that are unrelated to the page topic. When posting second-hand information, indicate it as such. When posting about your experience at an establishment with multiple locations, indicate the exact location.
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- Editing	+ === Offensive content ===
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- Users should never edit or remove comments from other users.	+ Do not publish content that is excessively violent, incites violence, threatens violence, or contains content which is disreputable or contains harassing, hate, or otherwise criminal speech.
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- Violations	+ == Editing == + + Users should never edit or remove comments from other users, with the exception of adding links to improve the interconnectedness of the site. + + == Violations ==
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	+ + In the case of minor violations, we encourage a quiet request on the offending user's page prior to invoking administrative procedures.

Acceptable Use Policy

DaveMahon — 2007-12-09T22:00:55Z

Comment added.

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	+ ------ + ''2007-12-09 18:00:55'' [[nbsp]] Also, what happens if we don't have a valid e-mail address? --["DaveMahon"]

Acceptable Use Policy

DaveMahon — 2007-12-09T21:59:49Z

Comment added.

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	+ ------ + ''2007-12-09 17:59:49'' [[nbsp]] This policy also doesn't clarify the procedure for determining whether speech is offensive or threatening, which is an issue that has come up in the past. One person thought the speech constituted harassment and another thought it was humorous. --["DaveMahon"]

Acceptable Use Policy

DaveMahon — 2007-12-09T21:56:57Z

Comment added.

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	+ ------ + ''2007-12-09 17:56:57'' [[nbsp]] What happens under this policy when somebody posts a comment that is in violation of the preceding policies? These rules don't allow anyone to remove blatant violations. + + Furthermore, what is the difference between content and comments. On the Park Point at RIT page, for example, we had blatant vandalism. It is only appropriate that we collectively be empowered to clean up the wiki without arguing over every little thing! --["DaveMahon"]

Acceptable Use Policy

MrPhil — 2007-12-09T18:01:07Z

added comments box

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	+ + + [[Comments]]

Acceptable Use Policy

rottenchester — 2007-12-09T16:10:52Z

Made clear that this is a draft.

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	+ DRAFT - This is a proposal and hasn't been accepted by the RocWiki community. +

Acceptable Use Policy

rottenchester — 2007-12-09T16:09:18Z

Renamed from "acceptable use policy" (Capitalization)

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acceptable use policy

MrPhil — 2007-12-09T15:55:32Z

A start

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	+ RocWiki Acceptable Use Policy + + Introduction + + RocWiki is a community edited site about Rochester,NY. While we don't allow anonymous editing, we do allow anyone to sign up, and once they have an ID, they can add content to their hearts desire. RocWiki is written and maintained collaboratively by volunteers. + + Who this policy applies to + + This Acceptable Use Policy applies to everyone who uses the RocWiki website. Your use of this site by posting on it constitutes your acceptance of RocWiki's acceptable use policy (AUP). + + Ground Rules + + Be civil + + No personal attacks. + + Let sleeping dogs lie + + It's tempting to revisit controversial decisions you disagree with, but it's rarely productive to do so, since it almost always results in the same heated, lengthy, and time/energy draining discussions leading to the same conclusion that was reached in the last round. + + Therefore, for issues already raised, discussed, and decided upon, reopen the discussion only if you have significant new information that would reasonably prompt reconsideration of the original decision. + + Respect personal information + + You may not collect email addresses, screen names, or other identifiers or personal information without the consent of the person identified (including, without limitation, phishing, Internet scamming, password thieving, spidering, and harvesting). You may not collect or use information without the consent of the owner of the information. + + Do not impersonate any person or entity, forge or manipulate identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any posting. + + + Content Guidelines + + Personal Information + + Do not distribute or post the private or personal user information of another member of the forum without their express permission. This includes names, addresses, phone numbers, and other relevant information. + + Be honest + + Do not post material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate. + + Offensive Content + + Do not publish content that is excessively violent, incites violence, threatens violence, or contains content which is disreputable or contains hate speech. + + Editing + + Users should never edit or remove comments from other users. + + Violations + + All members of the community may take action to report users and posts that violate this AUP. Violations can be reported to Administrators through email, post, or via the forum's built-in "Report" function (for forum violations). Violations of the AUP may result in removal from the forums. + + 1st offense: Written warning to offending poster's email address + + 2nd offense: Written warning posted to offending poster's page + + 3rd offense: permanent ban. + + + RocWiki is a community forum, open to all. It cannot accept responsibility for the opinions of its members, or for their errors or omissions, or for any consequences arising from the use of information contained herein. + + Dated: December 9, 2007